Recommendations for cheap PCI-E network adapter ?

[Ronald F. Guilmette]

I need to buy a PCI-E ethernet card. It won't really matter if it
is 10/100/1000 or just 10/100 but it has to work with FreeBSD at a
minimum. It would be Nice if it was also supported by Linux and
Windoze7, but that isn't really critical.

I'm a serious cheapskate, so I'd like to spend as little as possible.
I don't need anything super-deluxe. Whatever is cheapest will be fine,
even if the performance is only so-so.

Recommendations would be appreciated.


P.S. The small amount of research I just now did suggests that Realtek
based cards should be avoided, but one reviewer said that the Rosewill
RC-411v3 works just fine on Ubuntu, so I'm not sure what to think about
Realtek-based cards now. The price is right (for me) on the Rosewill
RC-411v3, but various online threads (relating to Realtek chips) give
me pause...

https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/60033/

https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/55861/

I really can't see blowing fifty bucks on a simple, low-end ethernet card,
but everything inexpensive seems to be Realtek-based. :-(

[Adam Vande More]

Post by Ronald F. Guilmette
I need to buy a PCI-E ethernet card. It won't really matter if it
is 10/100/1000 or just 10/100 but it has to work with FreeBSD at a
minimum. It would be Nice if it was also supported by Linux and
Windoze7, but that isn't really critical.
I'm a serious cheapskate, so I'd like to spend as little as possible.
I don't need anything super-deluxe. Whatever is cheapest will be fine,
even if the performance is only so-so.
Recommendations would be appreciated.
P.S. The small amount of research I just now did suggests that Realtek
based cards should be avoided, but one reviewer said that the Rosewill
RC-411v3 works just fine on Ubuntu, so I'm not sure what to think about
Realtek-based cards now. The price is right (for me) on the Rosewill
RC-411v3, but various online threads (relating to Realtek chips) give
me pause...
https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/60033/
https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/55861/
I really can't see blowing fifty bucks on a simple, low-end ethernet card,
but everything inexpensive seems to be Realtek-based. :-(

You can get an new but older Intel PCI-E from the big retailer in the sky
for ~$20USD.

[John Lyon]

Work and work well are two very different things. :-)

What's your use case? If this is for a home box, developer box, or
something that is not "enterprise production," then I wouldn't worry about
RealTek cards bought in the last 5 years. Their 10/100 cards from 15 years
ago were crap, which is how they earned their bad reputation. However, the
continuing dismissiveness towards RealTek is mostly undeserved in my
opinion.

The issue currently is the state of the drivers themselves and not the
cards. For example, the drivers themselves that FreeBSD includes have
problems. However, you can always download the source code to the latest
FreeBSD drivers from the RealTek website and all of the "bugs" disappear.
For example, using the included FreeBSD drivers on my firewall/router
(which uses RealTek NICS), I would get mysterious watchdog timeouts in my
system logs and eventual disconnects from the WAN. The only way to
reconnect was to reboot. The disconnect would occure every few days to a
week when processing more than ~200 Mb of sustained traffic. After
downloading, compiling, and installing the latest drivers available on the
RealTek website, my problems disappeared. I can now route at sustained
gigabit speeds. But this is true of any piece of hardware - you use old or
bad drivers and you get bad results. You use newer drivers with the bugs
worked out, you get better performance. A large part of the reason why
Intel NICS are so beloved and perform so admirably is that the quality of
their drivers is much higher.

That said, if you're cost sensitive, buy your NICS used. There are lots of
suppliers that take decommissioned servers and sell them for parts. The
NICS might not be new, they might not even be manufactured anymore, but
they are perfectly serviceable. Last time I checked, the going rate for
used Intel NICS was something like $10 per port + shipping. I think used
Broadcom NICS were similar in pricing. Both have good driver support for
both FreeBSD and Linux out of the box, so you don't have to worry about the
hassle of downloading, compiling, and installing newer drivers from source.





--------------------------------
John L. Lyon
PGP Key Available At:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/skmedtscs0tgex7/02150BFE.asc

Post by Ronald F. Guilmette
I need to buy a PCI-E ethernet card. It won't really matter if it
is 10/100/1000 or just 10/100 but it has to work with FreeBSD at a
minimum. It would be Nice if it was also supported by Linux and
Windoze7, but that isn't really critical.
I'm a serious cheapskate, so I'd like to spend as little as possible.
I don't need anything super-deluxe. Whatever is cheapest will be fine,
even if the performance is only so-so.
Recommendations would be appreciated.
P.S. The small amount of research I just now did suggests that Realtek
based cards should be avoided, but one reviewer said that the Rosewill
RC-411v3 works just fine on Ubuntu, so I'm not sure what to think about
Realtek-based cards now. The price is right (for me) on the Rosewill
RC-411v3, but various online threads (relating to Realtek chips) give
me pause...
https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/60033/
https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/55861/
I really can't see blowing fifty bucks on a simple, low-end ethernet card,
but everything inexpensive seems to be Realtek-based. :-(
_______________________________________________
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-net

[Valeri Galtsev]

Post by Ronald F. Guilmette
I need to buy a PCI-E ethernet card. It won't really matter if it
is 10/100/1000 or just 10/100 but it has to work with FreeBSD at a
minimum. It would be Nice if it was also supported by Linux and
Windoze7, but that isn't really critical.

I have Intel and Broadcom ethernet chips on several servers that run
FreeBSD. They are supported under Linux and MS Widows as well.

Valeri

Post by Ronald F. Guilmette
I'm a serious cheapskate, so I'd like to spend as little as possible.
I don't need anything super-deluxe. Whatever is cheapest will be fine,
even if the performance is only so-so.
Recommendations would be appreciated.
P.S. The small amount of research I just now did suggests that Realtek
based cards should be avoided, but one reviewer said that the Rosewill
RC-411v3 works just fine on Ubuntu, so I'm not sure what to think about
Realtek-based cards now. The price is right (for me) on the Rosewill
RC-411v3, but various online threads (relating to Realtek chips) give
me pause...
https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/60033/
https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/55861/
I really can't see blowing fifty bucks on a simple, low-end ethernet card,
but everything inexpensive seems to be Realtek-based. :-(
_______________________________________________
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-net

[Rodney W. Grimes]

Post by Ronald F. Guilmette
I need to buy a PCI-E ethernet card. It won't really matter if it
is 10/100/1000 or just 10/100 but it has to work with FreeBSD at a
minimum. It would be Nice if it was also supported by Linux and
Windoze7, but that isn't really critical.
I'm a serious cheapskate, so I'd like to spend as little as possible.
I don't need anything super-deluxe. Whatever is cheapest will be fine,
even if the performance is only so-so.
Recommendations would be appreciated.
P.S. The small amount of research I just now did suggests that Realtek
based cards should be avoided, but one reviewer said that the Rosewill
RC-411v3 works just fine on Ubuntu, so I'm not sure what to think about
Realtek-based cards now. The price is right (for me) on the Rosewill
RC-411v3, but various online threads (relating to Realtek chips) give
me pause...
https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/60033/
https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/55861/
I really can't see blowing fifty bucks on a simple, low-end ethernet card,
but everything inexpensive seems to be Realtek-based. :-(

I would seek the used channel, you can easily get good Intel
chip based nics that just tend to work everywhere, are 10/100/1000,
for well under $20 shipped, and often close to $10.00.
ebay is the source. Se the em(4) man page for a good list of
chips and cards.

These well outwork and outperform any realtek card you might find,
I have used realtek when it is a builtin, or for simple testing.
The 8111 gigabit chips seem to work well everyplace I have
used them.

[Frank Leonhardt (m)]

-------- Original Message --------
From: "Frank Leonhardt (m)" <***@fjl.co.uk>
Sent: 2 January 2018 21:21:32 GMT+00:00
To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <***@tristatelogic.com>
Subject: Re: Recommendations for cheap PCI-E network adapter ?

Post by Ronald F. Guilmette
I need to buy a PCI-E ethernet card. It won't really matter if it
is 10/100/1000 or just 10/100 but it has to work with FreeBSD at a
minimum. It would be Nice if it was also supported by Linux and
Windoze7, but that isn't really critical.
I'm a serious cheapskate, so I'd like to spend as little as possible.
I don't need anything super-deluxe. Whatever is cheapest will be fine,
even if the performance is only so-so.
Recommendations would be appreciated.
P.S. The small amount of research I just now did suggests that Realtek
based cards should be avoided, but one reviewer said that the Rosewill
RC-411v3 works just fine on Ubuntu, so I'm not sure what to think about
Realtek-based cards now. The price is right (for me) on the Rosewill
RC-411v3, but various online threads (relating to Realtek chips) give
me pause...
https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/60033/
https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/55861/
I really can't see blowing fifty bucks on a simple, low-end ethernet
card,
but everything inexpensive seems to be Realtek-based. :-(

Nothing wrong with Realtek at all. They are well supported. Some people are sniffy about them as the driver can't offload protocol stuff to the hardware. This makes a big difference if you have a server with lots of traffic on several interfaces. One card at 100Mbps, however, won't max out your CPU. You probably won't even measure a difference if you tried looking.

I actually use them for WOL because the drivers work more reliability, even thought I switch to Broadcomm or Intel for the heavy lifting once it's booted. See my blog for further.

Its a pity you're not in London. I have loads of NICs going spare. Can't get cheaper than that!

[Ronald F. Guilmette]

Post by John Lyon
What's your use case? If this is for a home box, developer box, or
something that is not "enterprise production," then I wouldn't worry about
RealTek cards bought in the last 5 years. Their 10/100 cards from 15 years
ago were crap, which is how they earned their bad reputation. However, the
continuing dismissiveness towards RealTek is mostly undeserved in my
opinion.

This is just for my home network. Not "mission critical", but I don't want
my equipment being eternally flaky, of course. And I am not enthused about
the possibility of having to frequently build and/or install a new driver
that isn't in the stock FreeBSD releases.

Post by John Lyon
The issue currently is the state of the drivers themselves and not the
cards. For example, the drivers themselves that FreeBSD includes have
problems. However, you can always download the source code to the latest
FreeBSD drivers from the RealTek website and all of the "bugs" disappear.

Hummm... Am I being naive to ask why, if there are better drivers available,
they do not get rolled into -CURRENT?

Post by John Lyon
That said, if you're cost sensitive, buy your NICS used.

Oh yes! This is for a "new" system build for which I am buying everything
as used parts. Depending on which specific motherboard I decide to go with,
I may or may not have a good old fashioned PCI slot to work with on the
motherboard.

If I do, then I'm good, because as I discovered last night, I have/had, sitting
inside a box of old parts up on my top shelf, no fewer than four (4) Realtek
cards, two (2) Intel cards, two (2) Netgear cards, one (1) HP card, and even
one ancient 3Com 3C509B card. (I'm pretty sure that all of these are 10/100
cards. They are definitely all PCI.)

The problem is that all these cards are verging on being obsolete now, because
many newer motherboards... and even ones that are several years old now... have
dropped the old fashioned PCI slots altogether (e.g. ASUS B85M-G).

Post by John Lyon
Last time I checked, the going rate for
used Intel NICS was something like $10 per port + shipping. I think used
Broadcom NICS were similar in pricing.

Really? Where?

I checked on FleaBay and as far as -Intel- PCI-E cards, the best I could find
was about $12 USD.

I don't know how to search FleaBay for Broadcom-based cards, because I don't
know any relevant model numbers (or even manufacturer names).

[John Lyon]

To answer your first question, the better drivers might be in -CURRENT but
I would never know as I run -RELEASE/STABLE. :-) However, I can think of
any number of possibilities (one, some, or none of which may be true),
including:
- Licensing incompatibilities
- Regressions for older hardware (I can confirm based on personal
experience that the latest vendor drivers perform worse on my ~10 year old
RealTek cards than the FreeBSD supplied drivers)
- Lack of awareness (the RealTek website lists their drivers as being
for FreeBSD 8.x but they are really for 11.x and RealTek just never updated
their site)
- Other reasons known to those more knowledgeable.

For your second question, my pricing information is a few years old. When
I searched, I was looking on Ebay and Amazon for used parts. I would not
be surprised if there were a slight ($1-$2) price inflation between then
and now.


--------------------------------
John L. Lyon
PGP Key Available At:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/skmedtscs0tgex7/02150BFE.asc

ail.com>,

Post by John Lyon
What's your use case? If this is for a home box, developer box, or
something that is not "enterprise production," then I wouldn't worry about
RealTek cards bought in the last 5 years. Their 10/100 cards from 15

years

Post by John Lyon
ago were crap, which is how they earned their bad reputation. However,

the

Post by John Lyon
continuing dismissiveness towards RealTek is mostly undeserved in my
opinion.

This is just for my home network. Not "mission critical", but I don't want
my equipment being eternally flaky, of course. And I am not enthused about
the possibility of having to frequently build and/or install a new driver
that isn't in the stock FreeBSD releases.

Post by John Lyon
The issue currently is the state of the drivers themselves and not the
cards. For example, the drivers themselves that FreeBSD includes have
problems. However, you can always download the source code to the latest
FreeBSD drivers from the RealTek website and all of the "bugs" disappear.

Hummm... Am I being naive to ask why, if there are better drivers available,
they do not get rolled into -CURRENT?

Post by John Lyon
That said, if you're cost sensitive, buy your NICS used.

Oh yes! This is for a "new" system build for which I am buying everything
as used parts. Depending on which specific motherboard I decide to go with,
I may or may not have a good old fashioned PCI slot to work with on the
motherboard.
If I do, then I'm good, because as I discovered last night, I have/had, sitting
inside a box of old parts up on my top shelf, no fewer than four (4) Realtek
cards, two (2) Intel cards, two (2) Netgear cards, one (1) HP card, and even
one ancient 3Com 3C509B card. (I'm pretty sure that all of these are 10/100
cards. They are definitely all PCI.)
The problem is that all these cards are verging on being obsolete now, because
many newer motherboards... and even ones that are several years old now... have
dropped the old fashioned PCI slots altogether (e.g. ASUS B85M-G).

Post by John Lyon
Last time I checked, the going rate for
used Intel NICS was something like $10 per port + shipping. I think used
Broadcom NICS were similar in pricing.

Really? Where?
I checked on FleaBay and as far as -Intel- PCI-E cards, the best I could find
was about $12 USD.
I don't know how to search FleaBay for Broadcom-based cards, because I don't
know any relevant model numbers (or even manufacturer names).
_______________________________________________
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-net

[Frank Leonhardt]

Post by John Lyon
- Lack of awareness (the RealTek website lists their drivers as being
for FreeBSD 8.x but they are really for 11.x and RealTek just never updated
their site)

IME NIC drivers work pretty well across releases, including moving the
latest ones back to earlier kernels. Compile the .ko and away you go.
This is, of course, an observation and not a recommendation.

[Rodney W. Grimes]

Post by Ronald F. Guilmette

Post by John Lyon
What's your use case? If this is for a home box, developer box, or
something that is not "enterprise production," then I wouldn't worry about
RealTek cards bought in the last 5 years. Their 10/100 cards from 15 years
ago were crap, which is how they earned their bad reputation. However, the
continuing dismissiveness towards RealTek is mostly undeserved in my
opinion.

This is just for my home network. Not "mission critical", but I don't want
my equipment being eternally flaky, of course. And I am not enthused about
the possibility of having to frequently build and/or install a new driver
that isn't in the stock FreeBSD releases.

Post by John Lyon
The issue currently is the state of the drivers themselves and not the
cards. For example, the drivers themselves that FreeBSD includes have
problems. However, you can always download the source code to the latest
FreeBSD drivers from the RealTek website and all of the "bugs" disappear.

Hummm... Am I being naive to ask why, if there are better drivers available,
they do not get rolled into -CURRENT?

Post by John Lyon
That said, if you're cost sensitive, buy your NICS used.

Oh yes! This is for a "new" system build for which I am buying everything
as used parts. Depending on which specific motherboard I decide to go with,
I may or may not have a good old fashioned PCI slot to work with on the
motherboard.
If I do, then I'm good, because as I discovered last night, I have/had, sitting
inside a box of old parts up on my top shelf, no fewer than four (4) Realtek
cards, two (2) Intel cards, two (2) Netgear cards, one (1) HP card, and even
one ancient 3Com 3C509B card. (I'm pretty sure that all of these are 10/100
cards. They are definitely all PCI.)
The problem is that all these cards are verging on being obsolete now, because
many newer motherboards... and even ones that are several years old now... have
dropped the old fashioned PCI slots altogether (e.g. ASUS B85M-G).

Post by John Lyon
Last time I checked, the going rate for
used Intel NICS was something like $10 per port + shipping. I think used
Broadcom NICS were similar in pricing.

Really? Where?
I checked on FleaBay and as far as -Intel- PCI-E cards, the best I could find
was about $12 USD.
I don't know how to search FleaBay for Broadcom-based cards, because I don't
know any relevant model numbers (or even manufacturer names).

ebay search for broadcom gigabit
I see some Dell cards, dual port, $9.95
And some single ports at $4.99
These are shipped prices.

Some people cuss at Broadcom, some people swear by them. I don't own
any of there cards, but I have never had problems with the inbuilt
broadcom nics in any of my dell servers.

[Frank Leonhardt]

Post by Rodney W. Grimes
Some people cuss at Broadcom, some people swear by them. I don't own
any of there cards, but I have never had problems with the inbuilt
broadcom nics in any of my dell servers.

I've been using Broadcom for years, integrated on Dell motherboards, and
they're fast and reliable. HOWEVER, there are long-term problems with
the driver and WoL. If that's not important to you, it doesn't matter.
They're (theoretically) faster than Realtek and better bang per buck
than Intel IME.

https://blog.frankleonhardt.com/2013/freebsd-wake-on-lan-and-hp-microservers-wol-compatible-ethernet/

Regards, Frank.